Greek director Yorgos Lanthimos burst onto the international scene in 2009 with his third feature, Dogtooth, a jet-black comedy about a messed-up family that heralded a whole series of films christened Weird Wave by the startled media. After the even more cryptic Alps, Lanthimos branched out into the English-language market, where his often cruel, unsentimental style of surrealism proved an immediate critical hit with 2015’s The Lobster. His vision is one thing, but the director’s superpower is his ability to lure A-list actors into his orbit, a prime example being Emma Stone, who came to co-star in 2018’s 18-century period piece The Favourite and has hung around ever since. The newest addition to his rep company is Jesse Plemons, who won Best Actor in Cannes last year for his three distinct parts in the troubling triptych Kinds of Kindness. Here, they talk about why they came back together for Bugonia, a sci-fi satire in which Plemmons plays a lone conspiracy theorist convinced of an impending alien takeover.
DEADLINE: How did you two first meet?
YORGOS LANTHIMOS: How did we meet? I think we met for the first time on Skype or something.
JESSE PLEMONS: Zoom!
DEADLINE: And what was the reason for that meeting?
LANTHIMOS: Well, I think it was for Kinds of Kindness, no? [To Jesse] It’s so weird to do [this interview] in front of you. [Laughs.] I always loved Jesse and his work. I had inquired a couple of times about his whereabouts, and I was always looking for an opportunity to work with him. So, for Kinds of Kindness it felt like it could happen. And then we met, I think we met before that film specifically. Jesse, had you read the script before we even met? Probably…
PLEMONS: Yes, for sure, I had read the script. I remember there was some talk of a small part in Poor Things, and I didn’t realize that your schedule conflicted with mine, and so I just thought you’d changed your mind. I was like, “Well, I guess that’s that.”
LANTHIMOS: We were told that Jesse was busy, so, yeah, it didn’t happen. But it happens a lot of times. But when you want to work with certain people, you just keep trying.
DEADLINE: Jesse, how did you feel about the script for Kinds of Kindness?
PLEMONS: Man, my first thought was it would’ve been nice to ease into it, and this was definitely not that! But I was incredibly excited. Reading that script for the first time, it was definitely a standalone experience. I felt so much as I was reading it, I mean, it was very funny, it was frightening at times, really dark. And so I just remember feeling, like, “What just happened to me?” when I finished it. And then it was like seeing a movie early, and then not having anyone to talk to about it — I just had this crazy story in my head. So, I was definitely excited to just talk to Yorgos about it.
LANTHIMOS: I didn’t provide a lot of clarity.
PLEMONS: None whatsoever. None whatsoever.
Jesse Plemons in ‘Bugonia.’
Focus Features/Everett Collection
DEADLINE: Yorgos, are actors ever scared of your material when you send it to them like that?
LANTHIMOS: I wouldn’t really know — you don’t necessarily get that kind of feedback directly. Sometimes they just say it’s a “schedule conflict”. So, I wouldn’t really know. I think the people that actually I get to speak to and meet with have responded to my previous work. Usually, it’s quite straightforward. I’ve been very lucky to work with great people, not only actors, and that’s why we tend to work together more than once. There’s a certain kind of… not synchronicity, but a kind of like-mindedness about stuff. And it helps when you don’t have to explain yourself too much and you can allow each individual to do their thing and contribute creatively. You can trust them to do that, because you know they have the interest of the film in their mind. I think film needs that kind of circumstance in order to work — people working towards the same direction. So, yeah, I think the people that I’ve worked with are the people that do appreciate the material and the stuff that I do.
DEADLINE: Jesse, when you went to work with Yorgos, what were you expecting? And how was the experience?
PLEMONS: I don’t know what I was expecting. I mean, I’d definitely heard about these unique rehearsal games and all that. And I think I had met Ramy [Youssef], who had just done Poor Things, and he told me a little bit about it. So, I was definitely nervous. But, going back to your last question, I think there probably, speaking for myself, there is a degree of fear, but it’s the kind of fear that you’re looking for. I’m always excited to work with a director that has a singular voice and vision. And Kinds of Kindness, not that it didn’t feel reminiscent of some of Yorgos’s previous work, but at the same time it felt like it was branching off in a new direction. So, I think the fear is actually the exciting element of it.
But to go back to the process, as Yorgos mentioned earlier, there’s not a whole lot of script analysis, breaking down A, B, C, D and all of that. Speaking personally, I think, whether it’s conscious or not, there’s a human urge to try and understand. And so, in those early weeks, you have to do your own personal work, but you can’t become too tied to any of that. So, it became more of a process of letting go and getting comfortable in not having all of the answers. And then, like Yorgos just said, enjoying this community of incredible artists who are all working towards the same story.
DEADLINE: How soon after Kinds of Kindness did Bugonia start to come together?
LANTHIMOS: Do you remember?
PLEMONS: The first I heard of it, I want to say, was maybe between four to six months after we wrapped Kinds of Kindness. You sent the script to me. I know you and Emily [Emma Stone] had spoken before then. But something like that.
LANTHIMOS: Yeah, it was relatively quick. I guess, I had read the script at some point when I was editing Kinds of Kindness. And then there was a quick decision about getting involved. And I wanted to work with [screenwriter] Will [Tracy] on it, just to make it a little bit my own, then quickly after that, the first pass that we did, I probably sent it to Jesse. And then we had to put it together. We actually went to Cannes with Kinds of Kindness while we were starting prep on Bugonia. We’d started a couple of weeks of prep, and then we had to go to Cannes to show Kinds of Kindness and then continue prepping Bugonia. So, in some ways it overlapped.
Yorgos Lanthimos and cinematographer Robbie Ryan on set for ‘Bugonia.’
Atsushi Nishijima/Focus Features/Everett Collection
DEADLINE: Jesse, was this more a straightforward acting experience than Kinds of Kindness?
LANTHIMOS: I wouldn’t say so!
PLEMONS: [Laughing.] Yeah, this was definitely a walk in the park. It was a vacation!
LANTHIMOS: Every day Jesse was coming in and going, “Can we find anything a little bit more challenging to do?”
PLEMONS: The script itself, as out-there as it is, maybe the structure of it is a little more traditional than Kinds of Kindness, and so it is maybe more linear. But I always feel the same way; each story, each part is new territory, unless you’re playing the same part over and over again. So, it’s something that is constantly being discovered. And I felt like the script was so rich and well-written and interesting. I mean, the characters really do jump off of the page. And that first read was extremely exciting. So, if anything, it’s the same process as it’s always been, and yet it’s completely different because it’s a part I’ve never played before and it’s a script that hasn’t been made yet.
As was the case with Kinds of Kindness, we’re trying to find the right tone, something that is maybe reminiscent of some of Yorgos’s other films but is also its own thing. And then it was the same with Bugonia. Because I mean, the tone can shift drastically within one scene, even, which is what was exciting about it.
DEADLINE: Yorgos, it’s modeled on a Korean film, Save the Green Planet!. Did you want your cast and crew to look at that film? Or did you ask them to keep away from it?
LANTHIMOS: I just let people do whatever they wanted to do. I told them that they didn’t have to, because it’s such a different film. I looked at it because I wanted to be sure that there was a reason for doing this film, that it’s different enough to warrant a different version of a similar story. But I was like, “You don’t have to watch it, you can do whatever you like. What we’re doing is so different.” So yeah, I mean, I didn’t have any particular view on it.
DEADLINE: They weren’t forbidden to watch it?
LANTHIMOS: No, no. It’s different. I said, “You don’t have to watch it, but you can if you feel like it.” Did you watch it, Jesse?
PLEMONS: No.
DEADLINE: Jesse, the character you play — Teddy, a conspiracy theorist — is very distinct, and he’s quite a real character in this day and age. What research did you do, or what preparations did you make?
LANTHIMOS: [Laughing.] Trevor!!!
PLEMONS: You’re going to meet Trevor. You’re going to meet him in Santa Barbara.
LANTHIMOS: Great. Finally!
DEADLINE: Who’s Trevor?
PLEMONS: One of my best friends. I’ve known him since I was 18 or so. We met in Austin. He was in the camera department on this show I did called Friday Night Lights. And as soon as I read the script, my first thought was, “My god, there’s not a movie that could be made that Trevor would love more than this movie.” I have to preface this by saying he’s the lightest, most loving version of Teddy there is. But he’s a huge alien enthusiast. I mean, there have been several times in our friendship where he has, without me asking, given me a lot of information. And so now I had a reason for it. And it was extremely helpful. That was one of the first steps — talking to Trevor.
And then there are a ton of documentaries exploring that subject, some books that were really helpful. That’s the fun part, when you’re just searching around in the dark for any sort of inspiration. There was a ton of different things. But Trevor was the foundation.
Emma Stone, Aidan Delbis and Plemons in ‘Bugonia.’
Atsushi Nishijima/Focus Features/Everett Collection
DEADLINE: Yorgos, what did you have in mind when you were adapting the script? Your films are often a lot more abstract, but this is very grounded in the real world. It’s much more realistic in its approach to day-to-day life than your other work, even your period films.
LANTHIMOS: Yeah. As you mentioned, some of my films are period, some of them are contemporary, they’re sometimes quite different aesthetically/visually. So, I don’t really think I did anything particularly differently. I just feel drawn to stuff, to material. And, actually, this was the first time I read a screenplay that I was immediately interested in getting involved with, without having developed it for years like I’ve done with my other work. I don’t know if it’s more realistic. I mean, I’m not the best person to describe what my films are, but I’d say it’s a little bit more directly political. It has more direct political references and contemporary references. That doesn’t mean that my other films are less political, because I think exploring human nature, society, structures and all these kind of things are political in nature. But this one has more recognizable political references and addresses things that are very much under our radar right now. So, that was the difference I think.
But other than that — the tone, figuring out the balance between the hilarity of it and the darkness of it and how you navigate through those things — I think, in a way, it’s quite similar. And that’s why I was so interested in making the film. It’s quite different, but I also recognize a lot of the usual things that I’m interested in. And that’s why I wanted to make it. Like Jesse, I was extremely excited. I found it extremely entertaining and funny and disturbing. I immediately sent it to Emma the same night after I read it. I just think it’s a reflection of humanity — the suicidal nature of humanity and what goes on.
PLEMONS: I’d like to say something along those lines. One thing that stood out to me was the fact that it is very modern. Will’s adaptation feels very American. But what seemed more realistic to me was when we were shooting the film, outside of Atlanta, we basically didn’t have to do anything to find a location that seemed poverty-stricken and where people were struggling. That really stood out to me. And in the way that Yorgos and the team shot it, it was very much like, we just rolled up and whoever was there was now in the movie if they wished to be. And that was really exciting, because that’s not always the way people work, allowing for all these variables. But. yeah, it felt realistic in that very modern way, I guess.
DEADLINE: You both put Emma Stone through quite a lot. Were there any limits put down? How game was she for playing the role?
LANTHIMOS: It was all pretty much in the script, and everything was choreographed and rehearsed. Emma was involved from the very beginning. She’s a creative partner as well as a producer, so it’s not like we’re actually putting her through any of those things. It’s a question of figuring out how we make those things impactful in whatever way is necessary, whether it’s funny or violent or a combination of both. Jesse, anything more specific you can think of?
PLEMONS: No. The day that stands out to me — of all of our days in the basement — is the scene where I discover that she is of royal descent. That was tough. I mean, that was tough. That’s just a matter of stamina and extremes in the circumstances of the scene. It’s a weird double-edged sword, because that’s what you’re looking for as an actor. But it was hard to listen to her scream all day.
Plemons and Lanthimos on set for ‘Kinds of Kindness.’
Atsushi Nishijima/Searchlight Pictures/Everett Collection
DEADLINE: I presume you’ve seen the film with an audience. How do they react to it?
LANTHIMOS: I don’t watch the film. I walk outside as soon as it starts playing.
PLEMONS: There was a screening here in LA that some of my friends went to. It was really interesting and exciting to me, just seeing people’s faces when they came out. It’s so different in the way that it affects them and what it stirs up within them. I had my friends over afterwards, and we all just chatted about the movie and the world and the themes. It was a really interesting conversation, and I think that’s the effect that reading the script — and then working on it — had on me. And so, it’s nice to see that that’s a similar experience for the audience.
LANTHIMOS: What I understand, and what’s interesting for me, is that when you do try to maintain this kind of tone — one that can tip to either side — and you get all these people that are different… Maybe they have different experiences and cultural backgrounds, or are in different moods while they’re watching the film, or the conditions in which they watch it were different. And when the balance of the tone is so fine, you get quite different reactions. Maybe a person will watch the film a second time, and the conditions are different and their mood is different, so they might have a slightly different experience. That’s what I love about that kind of balancing act, tonally.
And I guess the other thing which I find interesting is when you leave space for the audience to engage with the film in that way and not be didactic in any way. Like the ending, for instance, of this film — there’s been such vastly different views of whether it’s hopeful or not, depending on how you, again, feel about the world or how you feel that specific day. So, I find that interesting, seeing people that come out of the film hopeful that there’s an opportunity for another beginning, a second chance, another life. Or there’s people that just see it as bleak or dark, because probably it says more about where they are at that point. So, I find always that interesting, that it can have such different effects on people.
Read the digital edition of Deadline’s Oscar Preview magazine here.
DEADLINE: One more question. Are you two going to work together again? Do you have any plans to?
PLEMONS: Not soon, because you’re taking a break, right, Yorgos?
LANTHIMOS: Yeah. I keep saying I just need a little break. I’ve made three films back-to-back now. I haven’t had a chance to think. Like I mentioned before, prep on Bugonia overlapped with the release of Kinds of Kindness. I just want to pause for a second, but we’re still promoting Bugonia. As soon as this is done, I need to take a holiday and not think about what’s next. So that’s where I am.
DEADLINE: Jesse, what are you up to?
PLEMONS: I’ve got one more day on the prequel to The Hunger Games, which has been great. I finish that in a week or so. Then I’m going to do the same thing as Yorgos and just enjoy family time, take some photographs, play some guitar and enjoy the holidays. And then next year we’ll see. But I’m not going to think about next year until it’s here.
