SPOILER ALERT: This story contains spoilers from Season 5, Volume 2 of “Stranger Things, now streaming on Netflix.
After four-and-a-half seasons of questions prompted by “Stranger Things,” in Volume 2 of the show’s fifth and final season, creators Matt and Ross Duffer offered answers aplenty, while also setting up the potentially tragic stakes of the series finale. That deadly new question — whether there’s any world in which Eleven (Millie Bobby Brown) can live without her blood being the key ingredient for future weapons of mass destruction — will be answered when the show’s series finale, “The Rightside Up,” which drops on Dec. 31.
But for now, let’s enumerate the big pieces of “Stranger Things” mythology we now understand after seeing “Shock Jock,” “Escape From Camazotz” and “The Bridge,” as well as how the show has continued to tie up emotional threads within this tight group of friends who’ve become a large, extended found family.
Top of mind is how Will (Noah Schnapp) finally — finally! — comes out to his mother, Joyce (Winona Ryder), his brother, Jonathan (Charlie Heaton) and his friends, as they all geared up to head into the Upside Down to fight Henry/Vecna/One (Jamie Campbell Bower) for the final battle. In “Sorcerer,” the climactic conclusion of Volume 1, Will harnessed his connection to Vecna, which had been forged when he was kidnapped into the Upside Down on Nov. 6, 1983. Channeling his Eleven-like powers, Will slayed Demogorgons, stopping them in mid-air, and the episode’s final image was him wiping his bloody nose (as Eleven does) from the exertion of it.
Noah Schnapp
Courtesy of Netflix
Will had received those powers directly from Vecna: The first scene of Volume 1 revealed that Vecna plugged him into the hive while he was in the Upside Down. Will can use his powers for good, as we see, but Vecna can also use his connection to Will against him. He’s been creating the tunnels under Hawkins with his mind, using Will as his spy, just as he was in the second season. In Volume 2, Vecna uses Will to spy again to see where Max (Sadie Sink) is — a hospital bed in Hawkins — which puts her in physical danger. Not wanting any secrets to come between him and his friends, Will decides to come out to them, first by saying, “I don’t like girls,” and then going on to say that Vecna showed him a world in which he was alone because of his sexuality. “It just felt so real,” Will says, through tears. “You’ll never lose me,” Joyce tells Will, as Jonathan and then all of Will’s friends say the same, reinforcing their love and support for him before engulfing him in a hug.
Other interpersonal storylines resolved in Volume 2 are the ongoing questions of what would happen to Nancy (Natalia Dyer) and Jonathan as a couple, and why exactly Dustin (Gaten Matarazzo) has been so angry at Steve (Joe Keery). After Nancy shoots what turns out to be the exotic matter that’s holding the Upside Down together, it causes a literal meltdown that threatens to drown them in goo. So, Nancy and Jonathan get real with one another, confessing everything from her hatred of The Clash to the fact that he never applied to Emerson for college (and that she knew). Jonathan takes out the engagement ring he’s been carrying around in a John Coltrane cassette, and says, “Nancy Wheeler, will you not marry me?” They remain, of course, bonded forever – but just as friends from now on.
Charlie Heaton and Natalia Dyer
Courtesy of Netflix
Speaking of friends, after getting into a physical fight in the basement of the lab, Steve and Dustin separate in an angry snit. But after hearing the ruckus on the upper floors, Steve runs up the stairs to help Nancy, recklessly so. Dustin breaks down, saying he can’t lose Steve after he’s already lost Eddie for trying to be a hero. As Dustin sobs, Steve hugs him, finally understanding why Dustin has been protecting himself from getting hurt again by putting up a hostile front.
As for the larger “Stranger Things” mysteries, it’s Dustin who figures out, having found the journals of Dr. Brenner (Matthew Modine), that the Upside Down isn’t its own world or own dimension, but instead is a wormhole: a bridge to another world, one that Dustin names “the Abyss.” The Abyss, that red, Mars-like space we’ve seen before, is where Eleven sent Henry when she was a small child in Hawkins Lab after he revealed to her that he wanted her by his side in his plot to change (aka destroy!) the world. It’s where Henry evolved into Vecna, and where, at Brenner’s instruction, Eleven found Henry by using her powers, creating the Upside Down. “When you made remote contact with the Abyss, the bridge formed,” Dustin tells Eleven and the rest of the group as they formulate their plan. “And ever since, Henry and his army of monsters have been using it to cross right back into Hawkins.” The Abyss is also where Vecna retreated after he was nearly defeated in Season 4, Dustin says, to “lick his wounds” — which is why Eleven couldn’t find him.
The show also begins to reveal how Henry’s powers came to be before the Creel family moved to Hawkins in the late 1950s. Max and Holly (Nell Fisher) tour Henry’s memories in an effort to get them out of Vecna’s mindscape, which Holly has named Camazotz, using the terminology of her favorite book, “A Wrinkle in Time.” They end up at the bottom of a mine shaft, watching as young Henry comes upon a panicked stranger protecting a silver briefcase — he shoots Henry in the hand so Henry, just a child, beats him to death with a rock. (This development is alluded to in the stage play “Stranger Things: The First Shadow,” when Brenner, Henry’s keeper after he murdered his parents, mentions that Henry had been found in a cave in Nevada after going missing on his 8th birthday. After that, Brenner says, Henry was different.) Henry opens the case, but we don’t see what happens after that — because Max pulls Holly away. “We will see that briefcase again,” Ross Duffer says. “You’re going to get the answers to those questions in the final episode.”
Nell Fisher and Sadie Sink
Courtesy of Netflix
Henry’s powers (and their transmissibility) are essential to Eleven’s existential dilemma heading into the series finale. Kali/Eight (Linnea Berthelsen) reveals to Eleven she’d been held in a military lab because Dr. Kay was transfusing her blood into pregnant women in the hope that the fetuses would eventually develop her telekinetic powers. That’s how she learned, Kali then tells Eleven, that Brenner had similarly infused the biological mothers of all the kids in Hawkins Lab with Henry’s blood — resulting in Eleven becoming his perfect replica (and the other kids also developing powers). “They will find you,” Kali says. “And they will create more. Like Henry.”
Those are the stakes of “The Right Side Up,” the Duffers say. Is Kali correct in saying that she and Eleven should hang back in the Upside Down as it’s destroyed, removing the threat of them ever being used again as weapons? Or is Mike (Finn Wolfhard) right when he says to Eleven that they’re the ones who get to decide how things will end? “You, me, Lucas, Will and Dustin,” Mike tells her. “Because this is our story.”
“How can there be a happy ending here?” Matt Duffer asks rhetorically. “That’s the question going into the finale.”
In the interview below, the Duffers delve into that question, as well as writing Will’s coming out scene, when they decided what the Upside Down is, Henry’s backstory, how Max can help Eleven in the series finale — and much more.
Noah Schnapp
Courtesy of Netflix
Will’s coming out scene! For Volume 1, we talked about how you wanted it to be that as Will “began to accept himself,” he’d be able to achieve the kind of strength he needed to access his powers. Did you always know you wanted Will to have a huge coming out scene with everyone as the final battle approached?
Ross Duffer: Will’s coming out is something we’ve been talking about and wanting to do for a very long time. Originally, it was going to be in Season 4, and we just realized we didn’t have the space to do it properly. And I’m glad we didn’t, because it really gave us time to arc an entire season toward this — toward this one moment. And yes, he is starting to embrace himself, which we see in Volume 1.
But what he realizes is that there’s still something in there that Vecna exploits — which is that he hasn’t told anyone about this. That ultimately led to the coming out scene. Originally, it was just going to be Joyce in the original draft of the outline. And the scene was not hitting properly. We realized that Joyce is an important part of this, but he really needed to do it in front of everyone.
How did you work with Noah Schnapp on that scene, both in the writing of it and on the day of filming it?
Matt Duffer: Ross and I spent longer writing that scene, I think, than certainly any other scene this year — if not ever. We were so concerned about getting it right. There were a lot of things that went into it. I mean, we’re definitely nervous about how it’s going to go over with everyone. But not as nervous as we were handing it over to Noah. Because ultimately, it needed to resonate and be truthful for him. We really were writing it to and for Noah. He wrote us sobbing after he read it. So it really worked and resonated for him, which was great.
On the day, frankly, there wasn’t really much direction at all. Noah spent a long time — I mean, months — prepping for that scene, that moment. Luckily, that script was done well in advance. I know he did a lot of work himself. It was a lot of pressure on the day, because not only are you performing this scene that you know is the most important scene for you in the season, you’re doing it in front of not just a crew, but basically all his fellow actors. And they were all there for him. The only thing we said was, “How do you want us to start? Where do you want the camera to be?”
And most of what’s in there is the first take. It’s just one of those moments you always hope for when you’re working with an actor — he seemed to access something incredibly truthful. It didn’t feel like he was acting. I think Noah completely lost himself in that scene, and that take is what wound up in the show.
Will doesn’t actually say, “I’m gay” — the way he frames his coming out is in different ways. Can you talk about how you wanted him to express himself?
Ross Duffer: For us, it was just trying to make sure that the scene felt unique to both Will and unique for a coming out scene. For us, it was about the fears — because that’s what Vecna does. He preys on the fears, which allows us to explore whether it’s someone like Max, who’s dealing with trauma and depression, or in this case, Will.
The fear is something that Vecna, what he’s talking about, feels really real and grounded to Will, which is not that everyone’s going to make fun of him or be mean to him. It’s that everyone’s going to slowly withdraw from him. Talking about it like that, and then getting the reassurance from them — once we had that, then the arc of the scene seemed to make sense, and it felt very specific to both something that Vecna would do, but also to Will as a character. That’s when it really clicked, and that’s why it also helped to have everyone there, as opposed to just Joyce.
Matt Duffer: I would just add that another thing that helped click it for us, and why he says, “I don’t like girls.” This came about once we added the other actors, his friends, into the scene: It’s about how they are so similar in every way. He’s talking about everything they share in common, and how little difference there is between them, and at the end of the day, there is no difference. They’re the same people they always were. There’s just one thing that’s different about him. That’s what he’s scared of sharing with them. And that’s why it felt right for him to express it that way.
Linnea Berthelsen and Millie Bobby Brown
Courtesy of Netflix
Switching topics! When, in writing the show, did you decide there were two different things, the Upside Down and the Abyss?
Matt Duffer: That was something that I can say was early on. That was all the way back in Season 1: Netflix just wanted us to explain the mythology to them, because we were very adamant early on, “We don’t want to explain it in the show. We like that there’s mystery, and that there’s a lot that you don’t understand by the end of the season.” They said, “That’s fine, but we would like to know.” I think it was actually a really good exercise — we spent quite a bit of time with our writers figuring out exactly what the Upside Down was. We wrote a 20-page mythology document. It wasn’t called the Abyss at that point; it was called Dimension X, which is a Ninja Turtle reference.
But yeah, that’s been in there, baked in there, for a while. We’ve been holding those cards back for so long; it was a real relief to actually be able to show our hands here.
Can you talk about creating the life and death stakes for Eleven going into the series finale? That if she survives, the military will just continue to hunt her down and make more of her from Henry’s blood?
Ross Duffer: This is one of the reasons we want to bring Kali back — there’s really been dual threats throughout the run of “Stranger Things.” There is the supernatural threat, which is represented by Vecna this season. But the military has always posed a threat, from Season 1 on. Even when Brenner is gone, he gets continually replaced by someone else. In this case, in Season 5, by Kay. So we needed Kali to represent maybe a more pessimistic, but perhaps realistic, version, compared to Mike’s worldview of we’re gonna have butterflies and rainbows. And Kali’s going, “How is this going to work? And what is the solution here, that you can live a normal life?” That’s really a huge part of Eleven’s journey this season.
So did Eleven create the Upside Down? Because this is a debate we’ve been having at Variety since Season 4.
Matt Duffer: Oh! Yes. The answer is yes. Not her fault, I would say!
It was Brenner’s fault.
Matt Duffer: She was forced to do that.
When did you come up with the idea that Brenner had used Henry’s blood to create more Henrys — with El being the most successful manifestation of that — presumably to be Cold War-era weapons?
Matt Duffer: I think that came about when we were working both on the play and Season 4, if I recall. Because so much of it ties into Henry, into One. Once we started to really explore that, we felt that it was interesting to then use that to explain and delve into where these powers actually originated from.
Is there a way for Eleven not to have Henry’s blood in her?
Matt Duffer: The idea is no, because we like that this is something that’s in her DNA. It’s unchangeable. There’s no magic antidote that’s going to solve this issue. And we like that, because it just creates a very complicated, messy situation.
It’s very easy to say, “Hey, we’re going to go fight the bad guy and defeat the evil!” But even if they’re able to do that and survive that, there’s this other, almost even darker, more complicated question on the other side of that.
Joe Keery and Gaten Matarazzo
Courtesy of Netflix
How is it that Steve, of all people, came up with the final plan of what they’re going to do?
Ross Duffer: Well, Steve’s grown up a lot over the years. And particularly this season, he’s been beaten up a little bit by Dustin. He’s a little behind a lot of time; he’s like Donnie in “The Big Lebowski” sometimes, where he’s just a step or two behind. But Steve is a smart guy, and I think he’s shown that over the years. As we were working on that penultimate episode, we thought, “Who better to come up with the final — and arguably the most important plan — they’ve ever had than Steve ‘The Hair’ Harrington?’”
Matt Duffer: And his favorite childhood story was “Jack and the Beanstalk.” That’s the other thing.
Is the Abyss/Dimension X, the other world where Henry is, the place he originally entered as a child?
Matt Duffer: Correct. Yes. I don’t think in the show we ever call it Dimension X — maybe that was in a script, and maybe we’ve referred to that in interviews. But it was never officially Dimension X. So that’s now always the Abyss, just to keep things as confusing as possible.
Jamie Campbell Bower
Courtesy of Netflix
Shawn Levy told my colleague Jenny Maas in a postmortem coming out soon that the answer is no to them being the same thing. He said to ask you guys! He said he doesn’t think the Abyss is Dimension X.
Matt Duffer: I’m gonna have to text him and clarify this for him.
The man with the briefcase that young Henry meets in that mine shaft — is there more to that story of how Henry got his powers that day that we’re going to see in the series finale?
Ross Duffer: Yes, we will see that briefcase again. You’re going to get the answers to those questions in the final episode.
Matt Duffer: You’ve only seen half of that core memory.
I wanted to ask about other beats you wanted in Volume 2 as you wound the show down. We talked about Will coming out — Nancy and Jonathan figure themselves out, Dustin and Steve make up. Can you just talk about tying up threads and what you felt was essential to do?
Ross Duffer: It was really important for us that all of our characters, as they head into the final battle, have really resolved those tensions or conflicts. That they’re all working on the same page — whether those conflicts are external with others, or internal with themselves. Because in our mind, if the party’s actually going to be able to defeat this great evil, they have to be all working at the best of their ability, and be all on the same page. So it was important just to resolve those tensions and conflicts. There’s one left, really.
Matt Duffer: The Eleven one. The Eleven one is sort of the big outstanding issue that has not been resolved going in finale.
Millie Bobby Brown
Courtesy of Netflix
Meaning, can Eleven survive and have the world be safe?
Matt Duffer: Yes, exactly. How can there be a happy ending here? That’s the question going into the finale. Is Mike right, or is Kali right?
Can you talk about how you resolved the Nancy-Jonathan story? Like, like an “I choose me” situation?
Matt Duffer: Yeah, that was probably the scene we spent the second longest on. It’s quite a long scene; it’s complicated, what they’re going through. It’s very messy, because they do love each other very much, but we always felt that at the end of the day, they need to let each other go in order to grow as people and be independent.
But at the same time, there’s a very real — and I think a lot of people experience this — conflict, in the sense that they have gone through something very unique, and in their case, challenging. And how could anyone else ever understand them the way, say, Jonathan understands Nancy or vice versa, having not gone through this? Can they ever form a connection with someone that is as meaningful as this? But also, how do you grow as a person on your own? You need that independence.
So that was the idea behind the scene, and what we really wanted to explore. We had been planning to get there for a while, just figuring out how to exactly articulate that was challenging. But we’re really proud of that scene and, and specifically, how good Charlie and Natalia are.
What was that goo, and why did it stop dripping, or whatever it was doing?
Ross Duffer: We just wanted to put Jonathan and Nancy in a situation where they thought they were going to die — and, of course, don’t. But the backstory is that when the exotic matter, or dark matter, is disturbed, it disrupts the environment around, in this case, the lab, causing it to melt. But at a certain point — as you see earlier in Episode 5, when Jonathan and Nancy are on the upper levels of the lab — they see that this goo, this melted stuff, has hardened. At a certain point, it does harden. And in this case, we show how long it takes.
Matt Duffer: You can think of it like the sun — the exotic matter is circular, and then as it dies down over time, the melting slows and stops. The nightmare scenario for Jonathan and Nancy would be end up like those soldiers you saw in the prior episode, where they get trapped.
You guys answered so much in 5, 6 and 7, but —
Matt Duffer: The table is set, so to speak, going into the finale. But the big thing is Henry’s backstory specifically, and his connection to the Mind Flayer. So those are the two areas that I think are the most revelatory or impactful as we move into the final episode.
Sadie Sink and Nell Fisher as Holly Wheeler
Courtesy of Netflix
How useful can Max be, having spent a year and a half in Vecna’s mind?
Ross Duffer: Pretty useful, because she knows she knows his memories, and that is where Eleven is going — she’s going into his mind, or into “Camazotz,” in order to fight him. So I think if Max hadn’t spent all that time there and hadn’t learned her way around, it would make this final battle nearly impossible.
The last time we talked, you still had work to do, and you weren’t there yet in terms of feeling like this experience was coming to an end. Where are you now?
Ross Duffer: Well, we don’t have work to do anymore!
Matt Duffer: It’s a weird feeling. We finished last week — or it was yanked away from us last week. I mean, we would be working on it for another year if we could.
It feels very odd. But on the other hand, we’ve been working on it for three years, and it felt right — the right time to let it go. And we’re just excited for people to finally see it.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
• The Duffer Brothers break down all the Volume 1 spoilers
• Noah Schnapp on Turning Into the [SPOILER] in Volume 1
• Sadie Sink on Max’s Key Role in Volume 1
• Nell Fisher on Playing Holly Wheeler in Season 5
• The Cast of ‘Stranger Things’ on the Show’s Final Days
• Variety’s “Stranger Things” Oct. 15 Cover Story About the Duffers
• Cara Buono on Karen’s Kick-Ass Hero Moment (At Last)
• The Duffer Brothers on the ‘Stranger Things’ Spinoff
• Linda Hamilton on Being Millie Bobby Brown’s ‘Biggest Fan’
• Shawn Levy on ‘Sticking the Landing’ for Season 5
• David Harbour on How ‘Stranger Things’ Has Changed Him
