Clear eyes, full hearts, can’t lose.
The “Friday Night Lights” rallying cry has certainly proven true for Michael B. Jordan and Jesse Plemons. After the beloved high school football TV series concluded in 2011, Jordan starred in Ryan Coogler’s 2013 debut feature, “Fruitvale Station.” The pair stuck together, making two “Black Panther” movies and three “Creed” movies before 2025’s “Sinners.” The film, in which Jordan plays identical twins in a vampire-infested Jim Crow South, was a massive critical and commercial success.
Plemons went on to do more TV — notably “Breaking Bad,” “Fargo” and “Black Mirror” — and films like “Game Night,” “The Power of the Dog” and “Killers of the Flower Moon.” This year, he stars in his second Yorgos Lanthimos film, “Bugonia,” as Teddy, a conspiracy theorist who kidnaps a Big Pharma CEO (Emma Stone) in an attempt to stop aliens from taking over the world. It’s a bizarre role, but a perfect one for Plemons, who has played several outcasts and weirdos in his career as an indie film mainstay.
Jordan and Plemons haven’t crossed paths much since “Friday Night Lights,” but they’ve been rooting for each other from afar. As they reunite, they discuss working with one director multiple times, how music influences their performances and their awe at each other’s success.
Michael B. Jordan: Decades later, the universe brought us together once again, man.
Jesse Plemons: The last time I saw you was probably for about two minutes at one of these industry parties. But man.
Jordan: In my mind, I’m going back to Austin, Texas as the last time that we had a real convo. Without all the bells and whistles.
Plemons: These last few days, so many memories have been flooding back. We were kids. We did not know that. We thought we were grown — speaking for myself.
Jordan: No, no, very accurate. “Friday Night Lights” days. You’re like the original. The OG cast. I’m the new edition that popped in.
Plemons: Yeah, but we needed it. After Season 2, we needed some new blood. These last few days, knowing I was going to see you, I’ve just been thinking about all the good times. Been thinking about 24 Hour Fitness basketball games.
Jordan: You’re a sleeper. People don’t understand that. You’re very athletic, and you got a shot, bro. You hoop. You can definitely play ball.
Plemons: I don’t know about that. But I’m the guy that you suspect you don’t need to worry about, and then if I have a very open shot with no one in front of me —
Jordan: Come on, man. I can’t let you do that. It’s more like “White Men Can’t Jump.”
Plemons: I definitely cannot. Or run.
“Friday Night Lights” changed my relationship to acting. Peter Berg really put all the responsibility on us to make these characters our own. What aspects of working on that show do you feel like you’ve taken with you?
Jordan: First of all, I was so anxious joining the show, because you guys were already established. Everybody had such a great relationship, and like the new kid going into a new school, you felt like the outsider. But at that first cast dinner where everybody introduced themselves and welcomed us into the team, all that washed away. You got somebody like Kyle Chandler standing up and talking through the experience of what it’s like to work on the show, and you don’t quite get it until you show up and you got somebody like Peter Berg yelling at the camera— “All right, turn left!” — tofind certain shots while we’re in the middle of a take. The idea of always being on and prepared to adapt and improv, I definitely take that with me.
Plemons: That show felt like anarchy, especially for a network television show. I remember the trepidation: “Do we really have this space and this freedom?” And slowly it just becomes a game. That show taught me that really good work can come out of that sense of play and exploration. So many times, I was just trying to break the other actor. It’s just a game.
Next: What the hell, Mike? What happened?
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Jordan: We grew up! Look at you, man. You’re a whole father of two, and a husband and a phenomenal actor, bro. I’m so proud of you, man. You take on these characters, and a lot of them feel like outsiders. How do you find the relatability to some of these characters?
Plemons: It’s hard to say if I’m seeking them out, or if it’s just that’s how directors see me fitting in. I don’t think too often about throughlines between characters, but I suppose there have been a string of characters that are difficult to classify in terms of good and bad. I’ve been drawn to characters that take some time to figure out, and are not easily pegged and understood. Because that’s my experience with most people. A lot of people could be going through a whole world inside that you have no idea about.
Jordan: The connection between Yorgos Lanthimos and yourself, how did that manifest?
Plemons: I received a call from my agent and friend, Brandy, who’s just right over there.
Jordan: What’s up, Brandy?
Plemons: She told me, “Yorgos Lanthimos has a script that he wants you to read.” I was very shocked that he had any idea who I was. I read the script for “Kinds of Kindness,” and was highly perplexed, but also felt like I had been through kind of an emotional roller coaster. Then, there I am. In his rehearsal process, he makes up games for actors. It’s all very silly. It helps to build trust. The first few days just left me feeling extremely lost.
Jordan: A little vulnerable?
Plemons: Yeah. But it takes some of the reverence off of the material, and immediately tunes you into the other actors. Then, starting “Bugonia” — as you know, working with Ryan Coogler — you feel like you have a headstart when you’ve worked with someone. You don’t have to overexplain anything. There’s trust that allows you to take the leap, which is where the good stuff usually comes from.
I watched “Sinners” on the plane ride from Venice to Telluride. Was blown away. That movie, on a box office level and on an artistic level, truly gave the entire industry a sense of hope. You’d probably follow Ryan Coogler almost anywhere, but where do you start when you’re preparing to play two characters?
Jordan: Playing two characters — identical twins at that — there was a lot of nerves. Wiping all that away, it was like, “Lemme just focus on building out from their childhood trauma forward. How did that kind of manifest in each brother differently?” One’s a bit more internal with his pain. He doesn’t say a lot. The other one masks his pain in his charisma and charm. He smiles through it. Understanding that those are two sides of me also helped.
And diving into things that are tangible. I wore shoes that were too small for Stack because I liked him antsy, and not really being able to sit still. Smoke, a size too big. He didn’t move as much. It all started to take shape, with Ryan being the perfect North Star for where the story’s going.
Alexi Lubomirski for Variety
Plemons: It makes me nervous just thinking about stepping on set like, “Here we go. Acting with myself. Hope I don’t suck two times!” They both felt so lived in. You managed to differentiate them just enough without it turning into some actor show. It was a true, internal difference in both of them.
Jordan: With Teddy — you mind if I call him Teddy?
Plemons: You can call him Teddy. Teddy Bear.
Jordan: Teddy Bear. Bro, my jaw dropped, because you think you know where it’s going, but you don’t. The first time you’re watching it, you’re like, “This guy really believes something that’s not real, but to him it’s clearly real.” Did you ever feel especially challenged to believe what Teddy believed?
Plemons: Yeah. There’s a lot of very specific dialogue based on all of Teddy’s research and obsession. I knew nothing works in the movie if I don’t believe these words as they’re coming out of my mouth. There’s a period of time when you get a job — the best feeling in the world. Then when it’s time to start, for me, it’s always this sinking feeling like, “Now I have to do this.”
But for some reason, I felt like I understood his core. As twisted as his methods are, there’s this feeling in modern times where the world seems to be a scary place, and there are a lot of amazing people out there that want to help. It’s like, “Where do you direct this energy?” Teddy had that to an overwhelming degree. In his mind, in the story that he was telling himself, he’s the hero. We all have how we see ourselves, and then there’s objective reality, but as an actor, that objective reality didn’t matter.
Jordan: That was the slimmest and cuttest [I’ve seen you]. He rode a bike. He got his miles in. Was there anything to that physique that made Teddy feel very specific for you?
Plemons: I imagined him as this wiry creature of the forest that was just hungry and scraping by. You talked about your boots being too small, and that being a choice. Mine were too. It’s funny how those little things can really lock you in. Playing Smoke and Stack, aside from wardrobe, was there any other technique that helped you differentiate them? I struggle multitasking, so that seems like chaos in my head.
Jordan: It’s organized chaos. You have a limited amount of time. We’re shooting on film. So being as prepared as much as possible was super important. I would do a few [takes] as one brother, and then a few as the other. The time that I would go to my trailer and change would be my time to unravel one and build the other one up. Music was really helpful to listen to as I took off a piece of clothing and put another one on. And I took off my gold caps, which naturally hold my mouth differently and [affect] how I speak. You’re listening to the music and going through key phrases, running myself through that brother’s perspective of what got them to that day.
Plemons: You must’ve been working with an actor that was standing in for whatever brother you weren’t playing.
Jordan: A twin double. Unsung hero. In a typical scene, I would show up and run it as the other brother first to let him know exactly where I would be. I had to predetermine my choices as the other brother, and then I would do a second rehearsal as the brother I would start out with. The constant direction that I would have to give my twin double — where I needed my other brother to be for continuity, eyelines — that was the most chaotic part of it. Then I would flip to the other side. Whatever brother went first set the rules. We couldn’t occupy the same space.
Do you listen to a lot of music preparing for roles?
Plemons: I make playlists that are way, way too long for every project. And now Kirsten [Dunst] asks me to make playlists for her. I like to make very long playlists, put it on shuffle and just see where it takes me. Anything that can get you out of [your head], because it’s a fine line between preparation, making sure no stone is left unturned, and then, “That’s enough thinking. It’s just time to jump in and see what happens.”
We were fortunate as well that Jerskin Fendrix, our composer, had written the entire score before we started. Yorgos decided with this movie that he didn’t want the composer to read the script, and he didn’t want him to visit set. He decided to give him five words and to see what he came up with: “bees,” “basement,” “spaceship,” “Emma bald.” He said, “All right, go on your way. Come back with a score.” And it was brilliant.
We’ve known each other for a long time. I wonder, “Friday Night Lights” days or even before then, who were your heroes?
Jordan: I always feel bad, because I didn’t look up to a lot of people as a kid. My parents was my bar of how to do things. And I think having the name Michael Jordan as a kid affected things in a way that, in hindsight, I can talk about. But in the moment, I didn’t really understand. Your name is important. It’s how you introduce yourself and how the world responds to you. But when there’s another guy out there who’s the guy, I think it created a healthy chip [on my shoulder]. Wanting to be competitive. Wanting your own identity in a way. I wanted to be great at something, and I didn’t know what it was going to be. I just wanted to be great at it.
Plemons: Did you ever ask your parents why?
Jordan: My dad’s name is Michael Jordan.
Plemons: He was probably around the same age?
Jordan: My dad’s older than Mike. So I had no shot.
Plemons: So it was not their fault. It’s just the way the stars aligned.
Jordan: It was all meant to be, real talk.
Plemons: It’s funny that you’re talking about this chip. The other Michael Jordan is notorious for using that chip as well. It’s working for both of y’all.
Jordan: He’s Michael A. I’m Michael B. Look, man. We can’t wait another two decades to do this again.
Plemons: I know. Congratulations on everything. It feels like someone from my high school is out there doing amazing things. When good people do great things, it feels like a win for everyone. So happy for you. So proud of you. Keep at it. Can’t wait to see what’s next.
Jordan: Likewise, bro. Come here, bro. [They hug.] Big time, bro. Great talking with you. I got to get your number, man. We got to stay in touch, bro.
This is a conversation from Variety and CNN’s Actors on Actors. To watch the full video, go to CNN’s streaming platform now. Or check out Variety’s YouTube page at 3 p.m. ET today.
Production: Emily Ullrich; Agency: Nevermind Agency
