This article contains spoilers for PONIES
Who would have thought one of the most “trust no one” eras in all of history would lead to the beginning of a beautiful friendship? For Emilia Clarke and Haley Lu Richardson, delving into the uncertain and discombobulating world of Cold War espionage in PONIES bonded them for life.
PONIES is a spy thriller set in Moscow in 1977, the proverbial belly of the beast, told from the perspective of two widows who pivot from secretarial work to espionage in order to uncover what happened to their husbands (who, as far as they know, both died in action). As civilian women they are deemed “Persons of No Interest”—aka PONIs or PONIES, a cheeky nickname—by the CIA and KGB alike.
The gals could not be more different. Emilia’s character, Beatrice “Bea” Grant, is an academic who temporarily sacrificed her career so her husband could serve as a spy. She thinks she’s in a strong marriage… but soon learns otherwise. Twila Hasbeck, played by Haley Lu, is restless and a stereotypical “loose cannon” who was unhappy in her marriage and in Russia from the start. Over the course of the first season (streaming now in full on Peacock), the two women find new purpose doing undercover work for the CIA.
Both characters find new romantic attachments in Russia as well. Bea has dueling relationships with a dangerous KGB agent named Alexei (Artjom Gilz), who she’s more or less asked to seduce on the job as a mark, and another with an asset she bonds with on the job. Twila, on the other hand, gets close with a local Russian woman and ends up hooking up with her despite the requirements of the job. But from the seasons’ tragic beginnings to its uncertain endings, the core is Bea and Twila’s winding friendship.
In episode 6, Bea and Twila’s frustrations about their respective impossible situations—and secrets—come to a head. As can happen with even the strongest friendships, they take them out on each other. Bea goes on the offense. Twila goes on the defense. The attacks that follow unveil insecurities they have about their strengths and weaknesses, their sexuality, and womanhood itself. “I thought you were my friend,” Twila says, “but you’re just like every other girl I grew up with.”
But Bea is her friend. The next time they see each other, Bea opens with an uncomplicated but classic peace offering: “I have so much to tell you.” She’s not going anywhere. One fight does not end a friendship.
How do you see the differences and similarities between Bea and Twila?
EC: We are incredibly different on the surface. Twila is loud. I am not. She has less of a filter; I have far too much of a filter. I want to make sure that everyone around me is happy with me and I’m doing a good job. And Twila, her knee-jerk reaction is to not do that. So we couldn’t be more different.
But the core of both of us are two women who haven’t yet figured out who they are. Two women who see the world differently, but I think feel it the same. So on an emotional level, we are both coming from the same place, but showing that externally in very different ways. Bea has much more of a revelation with her husband, whereas Twila knew that she was with the wrong man. But I think what independence looks and feels like is something that we are both craving. I think we’re also both, you know, intelligent individuals.
They have different types of intelligence, too, which I like to see.
EC: I’m book smart. She’s street smart.
Well, when they do field work, Bea throws herself in in a very different way. She’s learning on the job.
HLR: We’re kind of like opposites in this beautiful way. It’s honestly similar to me and Emilia, like the Venn diagram overlaps in the most meaningful ways. And then our differences are so different that it’s inspiring to one another. Like, I learn a lot from Bea, Twila learns a lot from Bea, Bea learns a lot from Twila. And I feel that same way about Emilia.
There’s a moment in episode 2 where Ray asks Twila, “Why do you care so much about this anonymous woman?” And she says, “I’m an anonymous woman.” It’s kind of the theme of the show a little bit. It astounds me how much men don’t realize that women would feel a natural solidarity.
HLR: That line specifically, it hit me so hard when I was reading it, and then I was like, “How do I not deliver this like a dramatic…”
EC: Dun dun dun!!
HLR: Like, literally almost saying the concept of the show.
EC: Oh, you got it pitch-perfect.
HLR: In the moment, I think Twila is kind of realizing him asking her that is kind of her piecing two and two together. This very obvious thing that, duh, this is why. Because that’s me. We’re all connected in that way as women.
Did anything surprise you about this period of history? How familiar were you with the Cold War?
HLR: Not much. It was really interesting to immerse ourselves with these characters into that time and world. The whole concept of women being the perspective in which we see the spy KGB/CIA world, it feels different than the lens of a man in that time. It feels fresh and more emotional in a smart way.
EC: I really wasn’t [versed in the history either]. When I first got to Budapest, because I’m a geek, I did a Cold War walking tour of Budapest and learned some really fascinating things—largely that the Cold War affected every single country in the world and the extent of how long it went on for. That was something that I really didn’t know. And that the Cold War stuff you watch and that gets headlines is the tip of the iceberg. I mean the basis of “trust no one, World War III will happen tomorrow” energy is the biggest takeaway that we all have. But truly understanding the actual geopolitical landscape of what was going on specifically with regards to Budapest, was deeply fascinating and harrowing.
I’m very in it right now, because I just saw the musical Chess on Broadway, which is also a Cold War story. And it’s so interesting how while the CIA and the KGB are on different sides, they’re weirdly sometimes on the same side.
EC: Sometimes they’re weirdly on the same side….Adrian’s character in PONIES has a really good rundown and explanation of, like, if we didn’t exist, they wouldn’t exist. It’s just all so deeply based in a lack of trust in humanity.
Exactly. And it’s such an interesting way to set this story because your two characters are also grieving, and that’s discombobulating. And then they’re putting themselves in an even more discombobulating world.
EC: We are as far out of our comfort zones as we could possibly get. That seems to be the goal: Meet these two characters and throw them into the least comfortable arena.
What are your favorite spy movies and shows?
EC: Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. Absolutely. Very important. I’ve got a lot of spy books that I love, actually. The Secrets We Kept is a very good spy book. I mean, does All the President’s Men count? Put that one in there. Definitely. What are some other—oh god, why am I blanking? I’m thinking, like, The Departed, but that’s not really a spy….I mean, The Americans, the TV show obviously. I enjoyed Black Bag, the most recent [Steven Soderbergh film]. I really liked that. That I thought was really fun….I’m gonna be on the plane back to London being like, Why didn’t you say all the other spy things that you loved watching? Because I really do. If there’s anything spy centric, I’m in. Especially of the period drama variety.
There’s Mr. & Mrs. Smith…
EC: Mr. & Mrs. Smith! But Mr. & Mrs. Smith the TV show. That was my absolute dream. That was, like, so good. I really, really, really deeply loved that.
HLR: I’m not really a spy gal, honestly. I probably wouldn’t have done this show if it wasn’t for how much I love Twila and the core being about these two women in this friendship. I guess you can quote me on that because that’s what this is…an interview. I do like The Pink Panther.
That counts!
HLR: I like the Steve Martin one a lot, actually.
Spy fiction is inherently a very sexy genre. I think the relationship in this show between espionage and sexuality is a little bit different. In episode 6, there are these dueling sex scenes. Bea is disassociating. Then with Twila, it starts as a joke and then becomes real. It’s not necessarily what we think of when we think of James Bond types or Mr. & Mrs. Smith even.
EC: Yes. I think they’re both uncomfortable with using their sexuality for spy work. And they’re both being asked to do it and as a result have profound feelings. It surprises both of them. Because I think that weirdly Bea ends up feeling empowered within her sexuality as a result of her interactions with Andrei.
HLR: I honestly think Twila is realizing as this is happening. There’s a moment after we’re doing the thing for the camera and I’m dressed in the man’s suit and then we’re on the bed and then, like, we roll over and she’s checking in the drawers and I smelled her and she smelled so good. And I was like, Wow….I literally said, “Wow.” And the director [Ally Pankiw] was like, “That was so gay.” And I was like, “Yaaay!” Because I really felt like I was having a moment as Twila where she was realizing, This is very real for me.
Those insecurities come up in the fight that Bea and Twila have. It’s very top of mind. You think I’m this type of person. You think I’m that type of person.
EC: For us, that definitely felt like a very healing conversation. I think specifically for Twila because I don’t think that you—I’m putting words in your mouth; I do not mean to—you were expecting to be able to fight with someone and have it not be the end.
HLR: And repaired, yeah. I kind of realized, in the scene after that when we were making up in the car and trying to find the location of the coordinates, when I said the line of “I’m sorry” to you, I kind of thought, I wonder if this is the first time Twila has ever said, “I’m sorry.” Or had someone say “I’m sorry” to her and really mean it.
EC: Bea definitely has said “I’m sorry,” like, a thousand times in her life. But to have that be held by someone who’s going, “Wait, what?”
HLR: It’s really meaningful to me.
EC: Yeah. It makes you see it in a completely different way. And also for her to go and admit she was wrong. The first sign of getting better is just acknowledging the thing, right? Whatever your issue is. I think for Bea in that scene, she is like, “I know you think this about me and I’m aware that that is something that I’m giving off. And I don’t mean to.” That would be a first for Bea, acknowledging, because it’s a safe enough space that she knows she can say it.
HLR: I’m having, actually, a lot of revelations right now about the fight scene in the bathroom. Because there were two really profound things going on, one for Bea and one for Twila. For Bea, from my perspective, I felt like it was her getting externally mad and standing up for herself and her agency in her life for the first time ever. Twila did something almost maybe for the last time, which was self-protection. Going back to “you’re just one of those girls and I can’t trust anyone and fuck you.” There were two momentous things for both of these women: the fact that we experienced them together, already kind of building this real friendship and safe foundation, and then having that burst and it be a momentous thing for them.
EC: You’re so right. So for Bea it happens in the fight. And for Twila it happens in the makeup. The first time Bea’s like, “You know what? I’m MAD.”
HLR: And maybe—I’m getting goosebumps—because maybe it’s the last time Twila is gonna be like, *hiss*? Like, you did this one thing and it’s making me put my claws out. Because Bea is the kind of woman who is always apologizing for herself and trying to fit into things. And maybe that sorry was a different type of apology.
EC: It’s a different type of apology.
HLR: Because it’s not like, “Oh, I’m sorry, I’m trying to fit in.”
EC: “I took up too much space…”
HLR: It’s, like, “Wait, I care about you.”
EC: We’re hitting each other at a deeper level. And what else is female friendship but being able to be like, “Let’s get deep.”
HLR: And have a bad day, and say the wrong thing, and have a little tantrum moment because you feel hurt but then be able to repair….It’s amazing that this is, like, the best female friendship show ever. And it’s a spy thriller. It is such a profound, beautiful, pure story of female friendships.
At the end, you’re holding hands.
EC: Yeah, that’s our favorite bit.
HLR: Wait, wait. I have to say something about the holding hands. I made that happen.
EC: You fucking did.
HLR: Because they rewrote that scene to make it more like spy! Dun dun dun! How’s it gonna end? And the way that it was written before was more so focused on a Thelma and Louise–like driving off, jumping off a building. I read this new spy version and I was really sad and heartbroken because the thing that made me cry at the end of episode 8 was all the shit was going on around us, but it came back to the two of us. And this feeling that we have each other and we have this newfound strength in ourselves. I was like, “Is there something we can do to come back to that?” Like, even if we just hold hands. And then they fucking ended on that shot! You’re welcome.
EC: Writing credit!
HLR: Writing credit.
Honestly. Without getting into the cliffhanger of it all, what are your hopes for season 2?
EC: I really hope that season 2 Bea is her just shaking off all of her “should”s and who she thought she was gonna be in her understanding of who she is. Like really getting rid of them completely and just immersing herself in a more present moment that has her understand what her desires actually are. I think that would be really beautiful to see that journey.
HLR: Twila, from the jump, is so strong and tough. But then throughout, she really self-actualizes, her vulnerability and sensitivity and softness. To me, that makes someone stronger. And so I’m excited for her to really fully self-actualize all of that and continue on that journey. Because of her innate strength and boldness and fearlessness, I just feel like she will just get greater and greater and honestly more inspiring to me as a person who gets to play her and embody her. Like, to continue to find the strength and the depths of her real feelings that she carries. I’d love to see her actually develop a real relationship with a woman because I feel like that would continue to bring out a lot more vulnerability in her. So, yeah. And I like making out with girls.
Nice work if you can get it.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Set design by Jacob Burstein at MHS Artists
